Dr. Roger Solomon is an american psychologist who specializes in working with trauma and grief. He is a senior trainer for the EMDR Institute, and Recoverybloggen met Roger while he was doing a workshop called The Art Of EMDR at Røros in september 2024.
Dr. Roger Solomon is a psychologist and psychotherapist specializing in the areas of trauma and grief. He is on the Senior Faculty of the EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) Institute and provides basic and advanced EMDR training internationally. He currently consults with the US Senate, NASA, and several law enforcement agencies. (from: https://www.rogermsolomon.com/)
How did you get into EMDR?
I first read about EMDR in the Journal of Traumatic Stress and that was in 1989. I was intrigued, but very, very skeptical. My colleagues were talking about it. I remember one colleague telling me that he had just watched his windshield wipers while thinking about a problem, and something had shifted. So I was thinking, «what is this?» But I was intrigued.
In 1989 the International Society of Traumatic Stress Studies had a conference in San Fransisco. It was several months after the earthquake where the epicenter was in Santa Cruz, south of San Francisco. I attended the conference, and Francine Shapiro was speaking. She showed a very interesting videotape of a war veteran, and to me the theory was very plausible, and I was left even more intrigued. I had been invited to go to Santa Cruz to do interventions, providing psychological support for the mental health professionals who had provided aid to earthquake victims. This veteran that Francine had shown on videotape was a volunteer there. I asked him: Did it work? And he said yes, it really was helpful. So I asked him to show me, and he told me to bring up a negative memory. There had been a negative experience that had happened shortly before, I brought it up, he did several sets of eye movements with me. After a couple of sets I could understand the situation more, and I didn’t really know why it bothered me. And I realized that something had shifted. After that I went and took the training. That was in June 1990. I just started trying it right away, and got very surprising results. That is how I got into it. Then I invited Francine to come and teach EMDR in Washington, at the time I was a department psychologist for Washington State Patrol. Then in 1993 she needed more trainers, and I was invited along with 12 others. And I am still here.
Present problems are the result of past experiences, past events that have not been adequately processed.
Could you say something about what EMDR is and how we think it works?
EMDR therapy is a therapeutic approach to treat a variety of psychological problems. Present problems are the result of past experiences, past events that have not been adequately processed. So we have an information processing system in our brain that will integrate distressing memories. But experiences that are too much to integrate can get stuck, unable to process. We say that is maladaptively stored in the brain. So with EMDR therapy we access the memory, we provide bilateral stimulation such as eye movements, or it can be tapping or tones. And this seems to stimulate the brain’s information processing mechanisms, allowing that disturbing memory to integrate into the wider memory network.
What is good therapy? What is important?
There are many different levels to what good therapy is. The first level is that good therapy is what is going to help a person achieve the goals that they set for themselves by going to therapy in the first place. If it is something that is helpful, and the person is able to achieve the results and the change that they want.
Some factors would be important since we are talking about EMDR therapy. First of all therapeutic methodologies that have been empirically validated. And EMDR therapy for example, along with other therapies, have been validated as effective. For EMDR therapy for example there are many studies showing its effectiveness with psychological trauma and a wide variety of disorders. What is also important in good therapy is the therapeutic relationship, and it is important that the person needs to feel comfortable, and that there can be trust. Research has shown that the therapeutic attachment predicts outcome more than the methodology the therapist is using. So what else is important in therapy is of course when you are looking for a therapist, it is also going to be important that the therapist has some experience in dealing with the problem that you want to deal with.
Our basic attachment style sets the stage for how we will deal with problems later in life.
So, you talk a lot about connection and attachment in your lectures, can you say more about that?
Infants, human beings, all mammals are wired to attach to caregivers, for example for a baby the mother is usually the first caregiver. Infants are wired to attach to a caregiver for safety. So the baby is in distress and cries, and the caregiver comes to provide comfort. And if the comfort is good enough, then the baby is calmed, and the baby will learn over time that the world is basically a safe place, that there can be trust, and the person can ask for help. Now, sometimes what happens is that the caregiver is very shaming, or rejecting, or neglectful, there is abandonment. So here, to survive, the child learns to shut down the attachment. Not to recognize their feelings, and not to ask for help, because help is not available. So it just shuts down the feelings, and avoids feelings. And this is the precursor to an avoidant attachment style. When there is a problem, you shut down, because help is not coming. And the best way to survive this kind of childhood is not to be aware of one’s feelings and needs. If the parent is available sometimes, and sometimes not, then a child can start being very anxious when the parent leaves, what we call separation distress. Where is safety? And this is the precursor to an ambivalent or anxious attachment style. So when there is distress there is a lot of anxiety, feelings of not being safe, and seeking safety. So our basic attachment is, attachment style, sets the stage for how we will deal with problems later in life.
So, just to go with that for a little bit more, why is this important in therapy, or in EMDR therapy specifically? How does it go into the therapy setting?
EMDR therapy is therapy, and as in all therapy a safe and collaborative therapeutic relationship is important. Attachment theory can inform EMDR therapy by focusing on childhood experiences that are connected to present day problems. Distressing events that get «stuck» are not just major traumas, but the seemingly small but quite impactful attachment based experiences such as the mother’s angry look, for needing help and being ignored by the father. Attachment theory helps us understand the significance of these memories, and their significance to present day problems. EMDR therapy can be utilized to reprocess these memories, along with present triggers, and laying down a future template for each present trigger.
So you don’t only talk about or process the past, but you also go into the future and see how how one can handle these situations in a better way?
Yes. In this way EMDR therapy not only changes the way a distressing memory is stored in the brain, but focuses on present and future adaptive behavior. EMDR therapy is a paradigm of resilience.
We not only lose the person we love, which indeed is quite painful, but our relationship to ourself, others and the world changes.
You also work a lot with grief and mourning? How does that work?
Grief is a person’s reaction to a loss. There are many different kinds of losses. Mouring mourning is the adaptation to the loss. We not only lose the person we love, which indeed is quite painful, but our relationship to ourself, others and the world changes. Now we have to learn to live in a world without this person. EMDR therapy can be helpful in reprocessing the trauma of the loss, the present triggers that make adaptation difficult, and provide a future template for adaptive coping.
So that is the same approach as present and future?
Yes, indeed it is. So, somebody may have experienced a very painful loss, and there are a number of things that we start to take a look at. What happened, when did it happen, and of course the impact, the relationship, the history of the relationship. And it’s also important to understand past negative events that may have occurred. Past traumas, losses, including attachment trauma. So we can certainly deal with the loss as a traumatic event. Especially when a loss is sudden, unexpected and violent, it complicates the loss.
It is important to process the trauma of the loss, and since a current loss can trigger previous unresolved trauma and losses, we may also need to target these memories as well. Then, there are other present situations that may trigger maladaptive behaviors and distress. For example driving by the school that one’s child used to go to can be very distressing. Or going to places you used to go with the loved one, the birthday of the deceased, anniversary dates, things like that, can start triggering pain in the present. EMDR therapy can be helpful in processing these present triggers. It is important that the client has the skills and knowledge that is needed for the adaptation. If not we teach our client the necessary cooping and adaptation skills. Then we can focus on implementation of adaptive coping by providing a future template. This is where the client imagines dealing with the same or a similar type of distressing situation in an adaptive way. For every present trigger we want to provide a positive future template for adaptive behavior.
It is important to for therapists to have their own support system.
You worked with other people’s trauma and grief for quite a few years. How do you take care of yourself, and does it affect you?
So, there certainly has been a learning curve. When I was younger and was working with victims or working with people who had lost loved ones, there certainly was an emotional impact. It is important to for therapists to have their own support system. In most of the work that I do, I work with a team. For the practitioner who works alone it can be helpful to have peer supervision, or colleagues to be able to talk about one’s work and personal impact. Further, that these kind of incidents also can trigger the therapist’s vulnerability. The therapist may indeed need to do their own personal therapy. That is a part of our professional growth and commitment. Of course, it is important the therapist have healthy rituals that enable a balanced life.
What would you, like to say to the people who need help?
Call a therapist, talk to the therapist, get a sense of – is there rapport there, a good feeling when talking with the therapist?. Is the therapist knowledgeable and have experience with the kind of problems you need help with? What I do with a new client is have an initial meeting, and if it seems we are a good fit, I suggest that we have some sessions (e.g. 3 sessions), and evaluate if indeed it is a good fit, and then review therapeutic goals and the direction of future work.
What would you like to say to those who are going to help?
So, these are my colleagues. So to my colleagues, we are in a wonderful profession that is meaningful, particularly in this day and time. And I will echo the question you asked me about taking care of oneself. As therapists we take care of other people, and it is important that we do our own self care as well. And I look at, for myself, it is important to continually learn. And learning comes from reading books, it comes from workshops, it comes from experience and getting consultation or supervision as needed. Have self care strategies that give your life balance. Have relationships and activieis that take you away from trauma and engage you in life.
I want to normalize that yes indeed it can be quite a scary experience, to go in and talk to somebody about what is going on inside.
Is there anything that I haven’t asked you about that you would like to add, or any thoughts that came up during the interview?
I am thinking about the consumer here. It is sounding like this interview is for people who are thinking about therapy, or who want to be more knowledgeable about it. And they may be very scared about it. I want to normalize that yes indeed it can be quite a scary experience, to go in and talk to somebody about what is going on inside. You know, some people might think that “I would rather chew razorblades than talk to a therapist!”. But there are things that are happening in your life that are not going well. And we have methodologies such as EMDR therapy, that can really be helpful and efficient, and enable you todeal with whatever it is you need to deal with. So give yourself the benefit of the doubt and go for it.
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